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Low-quality content on Lichess TV

#21
@Hagredion said in #20:
> If you can "literally watch any time control you want" then what exactly is the problem if lichess switches to showing blitz by default? You will always be able to "literally watch any time control you want", including the so called "modernity in chess" - the bullet chess.

Simple.. that's because the "default " on what is shown on lichess TV is "highest rated" which is usually bullet.. simple logic lmao... it literally shows any time control as long as both players have the highest rating in the pool... If I want to watch just bullet I choose "bullet" if I want to see bullet with occasional blitz I stick to the "highest rated" if I want to watch rapid I choose "rapid"... it's ludicrous to not understand something this simple.
#22
@king-Monti said in #21:
> Simple.. that's because the "default " on what is shown on lichess TV is "highest rated" which is usually bullet.. simple logic
...and the whole point of this topic is that this "simple logic" is flawed because it does not take into account differences in rating distribution between time controls. And that it should be changed.
#23
@RealDavidNavara said in #11:
> I was not judging bullet players, nor bullet spectators. It is fine that many people like horrors, but you should not show horrors on a TV screen in a shopping mall.
> When speaking of low-quality bullet games, I mean what we usually see there on the screen, often the end of hyperbullet games. (Hyperbullet is also rated as bullet.) When the moves in itself (apart from the clock) do not make sense, it is low-quality from this point of view.
> As far as I know, Magnus has not played there much, recently. What we see there with both players left on a few seconds might be a good spectacle or an attractive computer game (how to make most moves in a given time without spoiling the game), but has little to do with chess. So why should it be the prevailing default content on the Lichess TV? If people want to play bullet or watch it, why not, it is their choice.

firstly, I haven't seen many movies being shown in malls. Moreover, if you want to get to that point, horror films are also great classics of cinema (Alien, Predator, Scream) and they are shown in cinemas among other movies. therefore bullet is not a Dark subgenre of chess but rather a distinct category by the skills it requires.

with all my respect for Magnus, he was also involved in the Niemann case, and played and streamed after drinking. so if Magnus doesn't play hyper, there's no need to everyone to do like him.

Chess was originally a game, one of the most ancient game in the world. And for exemple, was played by caravanners and pilgrims in cafes. However, chess has become a high-level sport with highly trained athletes with immense theoretical knowledge. Could a 15th century caravanner have imagined this? no, of course. However, there have been developments in practice. if thousands of people watch a world championship, why is it not possible for the online community to watch "their" TV ? You need differences, something new, something that stands out from the rest. Classic chess is immutable and immortal, but evolutions and changes are necessary for the good of the public. so if it's not here, it could be distributed elsewhere, and that would be a shame, because that's what makes Lichess so charming: the complementarity and the quantity of variants and control time available
#24
@RealDavidNavara said in #1:
> Do not worry, I am not hoping to forbid bullet. In my opinion, the LichessTV should show more blitz, which is quick enough to be attractive and at the same time slow enough not to be completely random. If there is a difference around 200 points between top bullet ratings and top blitz ratings, the Lichess TV could compensate this difference in its algorithm, thus showing less of random flagging. Bullet would still often be displayed there, but we would see more of blitz.

Well said! I didn't want to be the person to say this, but the way the TV samples really needs to be based upon percentile or something other than straight rating, unless we want "Top Rated" to be blunder-filled bullet games all day long.
#25
@Toadofsky said in #24:
> Well said! I didn't want to be the person to say this, but the way the TV samples really needs to be based upon percentile or something other than straight rating, unless we want "Top Rated" to be blunder-filled bullet games all day long.

I agree, although basing the algorithms on percentiles need some modifications, as it could bring more ultrabullet or classical chess here, both being extremes when it comes to time controls. To me it seems that the default games on the Lichess TV could be limited to bullet, blitz and (some) rapid, as these three formats are likely to attract a high percentage of users. (This is not a self-centered view at all, given that I often play Chess960 here.)
#26
Re #23:
I guess that we do not understand precisely each other. I agree with most of your thoughts, but do not see how they contradict what I had written. I am completely fine with the existence of bullet, with people watching their TV and so on, just think that the algorithm would deserve a slight change. And I am not campaigning against bullet, I just remarked that it often leads to low-quality games. It just seems to me that the Lichess TV currently prefers bullet over blitz for no logical reason.
If an exceptional player like Magnus, Alireza or whoever else plays bullet there, it is completely fine that the Lichess TV displays these games. What I dislike is that it often shows a bullet game between two players of an IM level rather than a blitz game between two strong GMs, just because the rating pools for bullet and blitz work differently here. (At least at their top.)
#27
Re #19: The following sentence shows another misunderstanding:
"I really don't understand David's point of seeing it as an advertisement, I think anytime you click on the lichess TV feature you should be certain of what you're looking for at that time.."

In fact, this is what I have written in #14:
"Imagine that your TV always shows a silly but catchy advertisement between films, or even during them. Yes, you can turn the sound off for a while every time, but it feels a bit inconvenient. (Just to avoid misunderstanding, I do not claim bullet to be silly, nor Lichess TV to be an advertisement.)"

I find Lichess TV catchy, sometimes like the displayed games, sometimes not (like flagging at the end of some bullet games). My point behind this comparison was that when some activity is needed for a change, many people will just keep watching/doing what they are, even if their real preferences are slightly different. (Many people really want to watch bullet, but few people really want to watch advertisements. Yet many people watch ads anyway.) My point behind the whole topic is that the algorithm prioritizes bullet for problematic reasons, as the same ratings in different time controls can mean very different things here.
#28
@RealDavidNavara said in #26:
> Re #23:
> I guess that we do not understand precisely each other. I agree with most of your thoughts, but do not see how they contradict what I had written. I am completely fine with the existence of bullet, with people watching their TV and so on, just think that the algorithm would deserve a slight change. And I am not campaigning against bullet, I just remarked that it often leads to low-quality games. It just seems to me that the Lichess TV currently prefers bullet over blitz for no logical reason.
> If an exceptional player like Magnus, Alireza or whoever else plays bullet there, it is completely fine that the Lichess TV displays these games. What I dislike is that it often shows a bullet game between two players of an IM level rather than a blitz game between two strong GMs, just because the rating pools for bullet and blitz work differently here. (At least at their top.)

I think you missed a simple element to support your point: bullet is more popular. I tried in my two previous posts to prove you why bullet is more popular and how such an undertaking as applying your proposal would be more disappointing for a significant part of the community
#30
@CSKA_Moscou said in #28:
> I think you missed a simple element to support your point: bullet is more popular. I tried in my two previous posts to prove you why bullet is more popular and how such an undertaking as applying your proposal would be more disappointing for a significant part of the community

I miss statistics which would confirm or refute your claim that bullet is more popular. I remember having recently read a blog post which claimed that blitz was the most common mode here, at least according to the playing time. (Not necessarily according to the number of games played, I really do not know.) UPDATE - it is quoted at #29!
Many players of my age (not much below 40) dislike bullet, and there are also many users who are decades older than me.
Moreover, there are many people who play here rapid rather than blitz, including a few titled players like @playRapidNotBlitz. I guess that people who mostly play rapid are usually more likely to watch blitz than bullet.
Of course many aspects could be discussed forever, but it is obvious that bullet and blitz ratings work very differently here, and that there is no reason why a 3000 Lichess rating in bullet should matter more than 2900 in blitz here. The latter is actually much harder to achieve, judging from the number of players who reached it.

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